Bridging the Gap Between Our Health and Our Homes, Air Quality and Mold Exposure With Michael Rubino


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Katie Whats up and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I’m Katie from And this episode goes deep on the matters of indoor air high quality, particularly mildew and what to do about it. And the excellent news is there are methods to remediate which are efficient that don’t have to be eradicating every part in your house and dropping every part that you simply personal. However we get into the nuance of this and why it’s so necessary right now.

And I’m right here with Michael Rubino, who’s a mildew and air high quality professional, a wellness advocate. And he’s the founding father of, which is the perfect firm I’ve discovered with a imaginative and prescient to finish the worldwide well being epidemic attributable to poisonous indoor air. He’s additionally the president of the Change the Air Basis and the host of the Mildew Talks podcast. And his firm is supported by an advisory board that features Deepak Chopra and Gwyneth Paltrow. And he’s council licensed mildew remediator by IICRC and ACAC, and a contributing member, sponsor, and speaker to The Indoor Air High quality Affiliation. He additionally has private expertise with this and has accomplished an amazing quantity of analysis on the precise efficient methods to cope with mildew. And he goes deep on that right now. All of the issues to know, to search for, what to check for, what to do in case you do discover an issue, what share of properties are prone to have an issue, the well being results and find out how to assist your well being after, and a lot extra. Positively a wealth of information. I’ve gotten quite a lot of questions associated to indoor air high quality and mildew. And so I’m very excited to get to offer his intensive data about this as a useful resource. I actually discovered so much on this episode. I’ll in all probability work with him to do some preventative issues that he talks about, like placing sure air filters in HVAC methods since I stay in a really humid surroundings, and in addition simply testing sometimes to make it possible for there isn’t a growing downside. However with out additional ado, let’s be taught firsthand from Michael Rubino. Michael, welcome. Thanks a lot for being right here right now.

Michael – Yeah, thanks a lot for having me right here right now.

Katie: Properly, I’m very excited that I’m going to get to be taught from you right now on what I believe is a vital subject and one that’s both not talked about sufficient or talked about in methods that may appear actually complicated and I really feel like folks typically get caught in an data loop. However earlier than we leap into that subject, I even have a be aware out of your bio that your first time ever meditating was with Deepak Chopra and I might love to listen to how that occurred and what it was like.

Michael: Yeah, so I bought invited to this retreat that Deepak was internet hosting, and I used to be tremendous excited to be there, after all. And I knew perhaps two folks there. So it was a really new expertise for me. And mindfulness was one thing that I’ve all the time heard of, proper, however by no means actually follow it. And so actually being there day-after-day, we began with meditation, typically yoga too, however I’ll be sincere, I didn’t stand up early sufficient for the yoga.

We go into this session and we’re a meditation train that Deepak is main us by means of. And I imply, I’ll always remember it. It was truly thoughts blowing, had a complete out of physique expertise, felt actually gentle floating. And one of many questions that we requested within the meditation was simply who’re you? And such a profound query, proper? And I began pondering, nicely, you realize, I’m a husband, I’m a father, I’m an entrepreneur, I’m an advocate for higher well being. And, these are simply titles, proper? And so actually the entire level of this train and what it led to was simply actually looking for my true self, which was simply actually cool. Very intentional and one thing that I’ve by no means had. You realize, thought, thought of spending the time to take a seat down and really do.

Katie: That’s so cool. And I believe that in all probability is one in all life’s harder questions, although it appears as simple as to reply, who’re you? So I like that you simply bought to have that have with Deepak Chopra in your first time meditating. That’s such a cool story. And I recognize you sharing it. However I’m additionally actually excited to delve into a subject that you’re actually world-class in your data on and that we are able to all be taught from you on, which is broadly the subject of air high quality, however in a deeper degree, additionally issues like mildew particularly. So to start out broad, are you able to perhaps give us a few of the excessive degree of why air high quality, particularly indoor air high quality is so necessary and maybe typically neglected largely even relating to people who find themselves interested by well being?

Michael: Yeah, so I believe the larger factor to comprehend about air high quality is the truth that we take 20,000 breaths per day. And one of many actually wonderful issues that I discovered from Deepak, simply to tie these two issues collectively, is the truth that the breath is so necessary. We begin this world with a breath, we depart this world with a breath. That’s one of many issues that Deepak shared. And it’s actually wonderful to consider as a result of actually, in case you have a look at well being and wellness, we are able to go couple of days with out water. Couple of days with out meals. Can’t go a few minutes with out air. Air is such an necessary a part of well being and wellness, however but it’s typically the very last thing that we take into consideration. And so we speak about these 20,000 breaths per day, that’s what number of instances we’re inhaling a selected day. What’s in that air that we’re inhaling is so, so, so necessary. And once more, it’s in all probability probably the most neglected issues that we are able to ever do with reference to well being and wellness for every human being.

Katie: That is smart if you clarify it like that. And I’ve used related analogies earlier than, however I really feel like typically it’s simple to need to concentrate on the meals, for example, as a result of it tastes good and there’s a complete neighborhood side that goes with meals and it’s thrilling. And that’s necessary, however to your level, issues like water high quality, arguably far more necessary, after which air high quality much more so. And I really feel like this one, aside from folks perhaps having heard of like air filters, for example, just isn’t as largely talked about, however you make a fantastic case in what I’ve learn of your work that that is typically a really neglected and actually important side of well being and wellness. So are you able to give us a few of the element on what you imply by that and what you have a look at if you’re evaluating air high quality or what folks can pay attention to for their very own well being relating to the air they breathe?

Michael: Yeah, I believe probably the most necessary issues to handle right here, which can be slightly bit complicated, after we consider mildew, proper, and we’ll go into element on how mildew impacts the human physique, however we regularly consider these, you realize, disgusting properties. And it’s simply not the case. A lot of my shoppers properties, together with Gwyneth Paltrow. Their properties are immaculate. You’ll by no means guess that there may very well be a mildew downside in these properties. And I believe that’s what makes this so tough or difficult is, you realize, folks stroll into these properties, they’re shopping for them turnkey, they’re transferring in after which they’re getting sick and so they do not know why. They’re going physician to physician to physician, making an attempt to know what’s occurring with their physique. They’re doing all this blood work, lab work, and many others. And every part is popping out regular. So the physician is absolutely, it turns into a medical thriller.

And it’s not till they lastly discover somebody who says, hey, go and verify your property, they do some deeper investigations of their residence after which discover all these issues. And I believe that’s actually one of many greater issues that I would like folks to remove is, it doesn’t matter how clear your home is, it doesn’t matter how good it seems to be, how freshly painted it’s, you might have issues behind your partitions or in your HVAC system, issues that you simply don’t usually see, as a result of we don’t have X-ray imaginative and prescient, proper? And so testing is so important to actually perceive how is the impression that my house is having on my well being, on my household’s well being. And I believe it’s that knowledge that may actually assist us construct no matter we have to do to get higher air high quality, proper? It’s far more than simply plugging in an air air purifier into your wall.

Katie: And I might guess that relying on the place somebody lives, there’s a better or decrease probability of mildew. I do know dry climates in all probability on common have much less of a mildew subject throughout the board, however how on common is mildew stepping into our properties to start with? I do know perhaps the preconception is that it’s normally solely a water leak or one thing like that, however if you speak about HVAC, for example, I’m assuming there are a lot of different ways in which mildew can enter the house and keep within the residence.

Michael: Yeah, so mildew’s a part of our ecosystem. Basically, the entire level of mildew is it helps decay natural dying matter, proper? And, you realize, after we give it some thought from that perspective, when we have now leaves within the fall, that fall within the fall molds nice as a result of it’s going to eat up these decaying leaves in order that every part can type of flip over and we are able to have a spring come once more with new foliage, flowers, and many others, proper?

So I believe after we have a look at it in our properties, how does that have an effect on our properties? Properly, after we open doorways and home windows, some mildew will are available. And these are referred to as mildew spores. Sort of like how weeds produce seeds, mildew produces spores. So our spores are all the time going to naturally happen in the environment. However when we have now moist environments like water harm or like our HVAC methods that sadly persistently condensate all through the day, these are moist environments that these spores can begin to germinate and develop into dwelling organisms. That’s the place issues develop into problematic as a result of the minute quantity of mildew spores you’d be inhaling outdoors, it may be so much greater if it begins rising inside, and particularly with the quantity of quantity of air that’s within our properties, it’s far more restricted than open air, proper?

In order that signifies that extra particles and doubtlessly toxins getting into our physique with every breath that we soak up greater concentrations. In order that’s type of the place this all begins to develop and begins to develop into trickier and have an effect on our well being and well-being.

Katie: And for context, what are you discovering so far as what share of properties may need mildew and never understand it? I do know actually there are circumstances the place folks suspect an issue and establish it, however from what your analysis and what you’ve seen, are there in all probability an equal or greater share of properties which have mildew and folks don’t know? And in that case, what would you guess that quantity is?

Michael: Properly, so the most important residence survey ever accomplished was in 1994 by a gentleman by the identify of John Spangler. And he discovered that fifty% of properties that he surveyed had historical past of water harm, seen indicators of water harm. 80% of these properties that had the water harm. He noticed seen indicators of mildew. In order that tells us that fifty% of properties have a historical past of water harm. 80% of these properties have mildew. I might in all probability argue that 100% of these properties had mildew as a result of that is only a visible inspection he did. He didn’t do any testing. And once more, 50% of properties had water harm.

If you happen to recall what I stated earlier, quite a lot of shoppers’ properties, you stroll in, it’s immaculate, you haven’t any concept. So this 50% doesn’t account for hidden issues which you can’t see. So I might guess that the quantity must be a lot greater, perhaps within the 75% vary. I’m a foul knowledge set as a result of my knowledge is slightly biased. Most individuals which are calling me, they think they’ve mildew and usually they do. Um, but it surely’s, it’s gotta be so much greater than, than we even learn about. And I believe that’s the place we begin to actually perceive how systemic and the way massive of an issue this actually is.

Katie: Bought it. So would you advocate testing for this as type of baseline suggestion for basically nearly everybody with doubtlessly these excessive of numbers already? And in that case, you talked about, I do know there’s quite a lot of completely different sorts of assessments and there’s quite a lot of controversy about them. So individuals are going to check. What do you advocate associated to that?

Michael: Okay, so the primary query is sure, I believe all people ought to take a look at to get a baseline understanding of what isn’t occurring of their residence. Once we’re speaking about taking management of our well being and bringing air high quality as much as the forefront, figuring out how a lot air high quality impacts the human being and the human physique, I believe we positively need to begin testing our properties to get a way of what we’re doubtlessly inhaling.

That is the perfect take a look at that I believe we should always do. And it’s MSQPCR know-how. I believe everyone knows what PCR know-how is put up 2020 right here. We’re taking a look at DNA evaluation, and I believe we should always do it on our mud. Now, there are different varieties of testing. You are able to do air testing, and it nearly is smart, proper? You wanna take a look at your air high quality, you take a look at your air. The issue with air testing is it runs for about 5 minutes and it captures 15 milliliters of air. If you happen to stay in a 1000 sq. foot residence, let’s say, 15 milliliters of air is a really, very small space than the general air high quality of the whole residence. So we have now this entire trade of those that wanna are available and take an air pattern or two within our properties, however the knowledge that it truly gives us is so restricted. If you happen to take a look at three to 6 toes away, you’re more likely to overlook an issue. Whereas in case you’re testing your mud, you’re gonna get common of what you’re being uncovered to throughout the whole residence. In order that’s why I believe mud testing is the perfect technique of actually analyzing what’s going on within our properties.

Katie: Bought it. And also you talked in regards to the spores and these exist in out of doors air and in nature as nicely. So I’m guessing that some low-level publicity to spores just isn’t essentially problematic, however you talked about when it is ready to begin rising, that’s when we have now an issue. And so this mud take a look at, I’m guessing, does it come again the place you would possibly see spores, for example, on basically any residence, however that you simply’re searching for sure ranges or sure strains or what are you searching for on the outcomes of these assessments?

Michael: Yeah, completely. So the mud take a look at is a superb instance. You’re gonna analyze 36 completely different species of mildew. Now, sure species are going to be extra problematic than others. For instance, Stachybotrys or the poisonous black mildew that all of us hear about. We need to see none of that, proper? As a result of if we even see one spore, that signifies that there’s one thing occurring in our residence that has been leaking for not less than three to 5 days as a result of that’s how lengthy it takes for that exact kind of mildew. So that you usually solely see it in affiliation with a water harm surroundings. The identical holds true for a mildew referred to as ketomia.

With respects to the opposite 34 molds. We need to see them in regular ranges, like aspergillus or penicillium, we might have heard these two molds earlier than. They’re fairly considerable in the environment. So we’re going to see some degree throughout our residence. However after we see that they’re 100 instances or a thousand instances greater than what it ought to be, that’s how we get a clue as to that is irregular. This one thing should in right here on this residence have to be rising and contributing to this quantity as a result of if you see these varieties of ranges, that’s not regular transference from outdoors to inside.

So we need to have a look at the info and we need to go line by line down all of the several types of molds and need to perceive, is it irregular or is that this inside regular vary? And something inside regular vary, that’s what we’re searching for.

Katie: Bought it. And it appears like statistically, not less than half the individuals who take a look at for this stuff would possibly discover one thing problematic on their report. And in that case, I do know that is the place one other space, it looks as if misinformation abounds, or not less than a lot conflicting data that it will possibly seem to be choice paralysis. Like I do know I’ve accomplished testing and fortunately nothing main got here up on mine, however I even within the ready interval for the testing, type of had that thought loop of like, if there’s a downside, like what do you even do about it? As a result of I’ve seen so many alternative sources that say so many alternative issues, and it looks as if it will possibly vary from something from, remediation will be fairly easy to mainly knock down your whole residence. So if somebody does discover one thing on this report, what’s a common plan of action and the way do you assist them decide that?

Michael: Yeah, so I imply, it actually relies on what’s discovered, proper? There’s so many variables, which does make it slightly tough. The nice factor is you wanna actually have anyone who understands knowledge that may assist you interpret it after which assist you put collectively an motion plan, proper? Now, in some circumstances, you might have to knock down partitions. Yeah, that occurs on a regular basis. Generally the mildew is rising beneath a rest room as a result of a rest room’s been leaking or below a tub as a result of a tub’s been leaking. In that case, you’ll want to take away the bathroom. Discover out what’s occurring. Take away the bath, discover out what’s occurring, proper? So this stuff do occur.

Anytime you’ve gotten mildew rising in a location, it’s as a result of there’s a possibility for it to develop, proper? And so we have now to establish what’s that chance and the way will we resolve that? That’s positively a part of it. I’d say, in case you needed to ask me prime 10 locations that mildew is rising, I’ll let you know attics due to roof leaks, basements and crawl areas due to simply because they’re under grade, which signifies that there’s continually water sitting in opposition to the inspiration of the house and water likes to dry to the drier facet, which is usually gonna be indoors. You’re gonna have kitchens and bogs, quite a lot of showers, tile areas will not be constructed correctly with correct waterproofing. So we see water seeping by means of the grout over time, stepping into the wall cavity and rising. We’ve seen stunning luxurious properties which have bathtubs on prime of wooden flooring. Sadly, it’d look actually fairly, however each time you step out of that bathtub and also you’re dripping on that wooden flooring, you’re doubtlessly permitting water to see by means of and begin rising beneath the ground, proper?

We’re taking a look at all these various things to attempt to perceive what would possibly the issue be and the decision is gonna rely upon how unhealthy it’s. There’s an enormous false impression with fogging in the environment, the place mainly they don’t take out something, they simply are available and so they fog every part. Properly, the issue with that’s you’re not addressing the chance, proper? No matter leak is going on that’s permitting it to develop, and also you’re not getting in each nook and cranny of the room. Fully eliminating something. So typically you’re gonna spend 1000’s of {dollars}, however you’re not gonna get any actual end result out of it.

Katie: Gotcha, that is smart. And it looks as if then it might come again. And on that very same be aware, is there something preventative folks can do, both in the event that they’re going to purchase a home, construct a home, or verify their present home to attempt to decrease the probabilities of mildew rising?

Michael: Yeah, so we’ll begin with constructing a home. I see so many model new properties which have mildew rising all around the framing. Two completely different causes. One, the lumber sat within the soil as they’re constructing the home. Properly, mildew is considerable within the soil, so is micro organism. So in case you permit the lumber to take a seat within the soil whereas the home is being constructed and it’s raining, you’re going to switch mildew and micro organism from the soil onto the wooden. That’s in all probability the primary downside that we see. There are tips to stop that from taking place, however sadly throughout America, in case you drive round, they’re simply not following the rules.

The second quantity, in all probability problematic factor is the truth that after we construct a house. It’s gonna rain, proper? It’s simply there may be climate, we have now to cope with it. The issue is that after we know that the home is gonna get rained on, as soon as it will get to that dried in stage, The time period is known as dried in for a cause. We’re presupposed to then dry the construction in order that no mildew begins to develop. However sadly, in America particularly, the place we’re constructing properties so quick, it used to take us two years, now we’re constructing properties in six months. That dry in step is getting missed, simply getting neglected. They usually begin bringing in insulation and drywall and even worse, spraying the insulation over the beams. After which bringing in drywall. If every part’s moist, if you do this, you’re gonna entice moisture and you then’re gonna permit mildew to develop.

So these are the 2 massive issues preventatively you are able to do is in case you see lumber sitting within the soil, inform them to raise it out of the soil. It’s within the structural constructing parts associations tips. And you’ll simply level to that. The second factor you’ll wanna do is when the home is absolutely all dried in and the skin’s all shielded from the climate parts, you wanna be sure that all that lumber is dry on the within and God forbid there’s any mildew that began to develop already, get it taken care of and faraway from the lumber earlier than you begin bringing in insulation and drywall. If you happen to do these two issues, you can be far forward of the sport when it comes to constructing.

Now with, you realize, shopping for a house, take a look at it earlier than you shut. Work out what the issues are. The everyday residence inspector, most of them will not be very nicely skilled in mildew, and so they’re solely gonna have a look at issues from a visible perspective. So if there’s mildew rising behind a wall, they’re very possible gonna miss it. So I believe doing a little testing on a house before you purchase it’s gonna be key so that you could perceive what you’re getting your self into. A variety of instances my suggestion is gonna be in case you’re shopping for the house, get the report, ask for credit and remediate your self as a result of the one that’s promoting it, they’re simply gonna remediate as shortly and as cheaply as doable, which could not be your objective. Your objective is likely to be to do it the best approach or one of the simplest ways doable in order that the issue doesn’t persist and you can also make positive it’s taken care of safely for you and your loved ones. So I might put that half in your management as an alternative of anyone else’s.

After which simply, you realize, one of many greater points systemically is with simply how we keep our properties, remediate them generally. A variety of us will not be fascinated about, you realize, inspecting our roofs yearly, taking a look at our doorways and home windows yearly. You realize, these are issues that when they’re constructed, they do begin to degrade over time. And if we’re not on prime of this stuff, sadly, what we find yourself doing is we find yourself being reactive as an alternative of proactive. You realize, as soon as issues begin falling aside, then we truly begin to have a look at addressing them. However by then it’s already too late and it’s going to price extra now. You realize, so I believe folks begin stepping into the mindset of inspecting this stuff frequently in order that we’re not coping with issues after they’re falling aside.

Katie: And that is smart. And also you preemptively answered one in all my subsequent questions, which was, it appears like new homes will not be essentially higher simply because they’re new. They will have issues from the beginning as nicely, until you’ve gotten management over these constructing items such as you talked about.

My subsequent query is, what about somebody who both did construct or purchase a house and perhaps these steps weren’t accomplished? And so there’s moisture and now mildew within the studs of the home. What’s the course of then to remediate that? Is that even doable? Wish to me, that appears like a state of affairs of like, simply burn the home down and transfer on. However what do you do in that case?

Michael: That case has occurred many instances, sadly, to many consumers of mine. You realize, sadly, what it’s a must to do is it’s a must to take a look at quite a lot of the outside partitions to get a way of how unhealthy it’s. It’s not going to develop constantly all through the home. So what you’ll find yourself discovering is you’ll discover that sure spots or sure areas are going to be a lot greater than others. And you actually need to concentrate on these, proper?

It’s going to be unattainable in right now’s local weather and know-how to have a mildew free residence, like freed from all mildew, zero mildew counts in every single place, proper? So we need to truly have a look at what’s rising, how a lot of it’s there, and what kind of impression is that going to have on our complete air high quality? And that’s type of a few of the calculations that I have a look at when it comes to the info to actually get a way of what’s the associated fee for this and what’s the worth we’re gonna get out of fixing this.

So I might say in that case, get some knowledge. Take a look at the info and also you’ll clearly see, some areas is likely to be approach greater than others and we wanna begin to prioritize a listing of what’s creating essentially the most impression and dealing our approach down. And I believe that’s what makes this far more achievable, economical, and I’ll watch out with the phrase economical as a result of I do know that may be a difficult phrase right here, but it surely helps you actually take management over what you’ll be able to afford to do and do it successfully.

Katie: And what about issues like comfortable surfaces? As a result of I do know that’s a factor that usually comes up when there’s an recognized mildew downside, is that the concept that you’ll want to eliminate something that isn’t a remediable exhausting floor, like concrete or stone or one thing like that. Is that the case or are there methods to doubtlessly save issues like books and clothes?

Michael: Yeah, there’s quite a lot of variables there. And I believe that’s why it will get so complicated. You go into a few of these blogs and so they’re telling you, throw every part away, gentle it on hearth, simply evacuate with nothing left, not even the shirt in your again. And, you realize, is there some circumstances the place that could be true? Certain. However I believe that might be a extra excessive case.

Now, porous contents generally, they’re very exhausting to successfully clear. One of the simplest ways to do it could be to check sure objects. Which might be porous that you simply’re involved about. And you are able to do a tape elevate, which might be the simplest factor to check like a cloth sofa or a mattress. And for 35 bucks, you’ll get an understanding of simply how contaminated that merchandise is, proper? I believe that’s in all probability the most effective methods to go about it.

And right here’s why, I may need a mattress in my home and perhaps I don’t have a kind of waterproof mattress covers defending it absolutely and it’s out within the, and uncovered to the air. Now we have now sheets and blankets and all issues on prime of it too, that quite a lot of these particles, spores, etcetera, would decide on first, proper? Then we go to this variable of how shut is it to the supply. Mildew doesn’t journey very removed from its supply level. It truly, the way in which it will get throughout our home is it hitches a trip with our mud.

So comply with me on this. Image you’ve gotten mildew in your wall. Proper behind you. That wall from about that time to a few, 4 toes, can be like slightly haze of some very, very tiny particles. Now, in case you’re sitting proper there on a regular basis respiratory that in, that’s direct inhalation. However more often than not, our mud that’s already within the air, that passes by means of that space, it’s going to bind with our mud, then develop into a part of our mud, proper? Our mud is in every single place, proper? So the problem turns into how will we get our mud, which is gonna have spores, which could have toxins with it, out of our stuff so that each time we’re taking a breath, there’s much less contaminated mud and extra naturally occurring mud. Okay.

So relating to sure issues, you realize, the variable is how shut was it in proximity as a result of if it wasn’t that shut, the percentages of it being extremely contaminated are gonna be so much smaller. So as soon as we all know the place the sources are, we’ll in all probability wanna take a extra, I might say, err on the facet of warning method as near these sources as doable. So that you’re sitting on a chair proper now, you’ve gotten a desk in all probability in entrance of you. We’re gonna wanna have a look at that extra carefully and say, okay, something porous right here, We’re gonna wanna be sure that it may very well be successfully cleaned. There are answers like EC3 laundry additive, something that’s mechanically cleanable can go in there. And something that’s non-porous can all be cleaned. Something that’s semi-porous must be evaluated for a way successfully it may be cleaned too.

Issues additional away from the supply, throughout the home and different rooms, we’re in all probability gonna have the ability to take much more of a relaxed method. Books and issues of that nature, in these rooms, we’re gonna wipe down the covers, the binder. We would even go so thorough as to take them outdoors, seize them by the binder and type of shake them out. So any mud that has particles and spores and toxins with it’s going to fall out of that e-book, proper?

Now, in some excessive circumstances, folks is likely to be so delicate that they should go far more excessive than the typical particular person. And we name them hypersensitive people. They’re not as uncommon as you suppose. However even hypersensitive people have completely different ranges of hypersensitivity. You realize, some folks develop into delicate to gentle and sound. Some folks develop into delicate to any type of fragrances or chemical compounds. And relying on their sensitivity degree, the entire recreation plan can change, proper? And I believe that’s why you are taking all these variables into consideration. You’ll have folks let you know all types of issues on the web, which is tough to decipher. However I might let you know that the typical particular person is gonna have quite a lot of success cleansing issues, taking a look at it from the lens of, let’s take away all this contaminated mud, and each time that we clear, we’re eradicating that exponentially. So we’re attending to a degree, two or three cleanings later, the place we have now a very wholesome surroundings.

Katie: Properly, and that’s truly actually encouraging to listen to that it’s seemingly extra concentrated close to the supply. So even when when you establish the issue and the place it’s coming from, you would possibly have to, for example, eliminate one mattress that was in that very same room or the material that was in that room. However that doesn’t essentially imply you’re throwing away every part you personal in your entire home and holding nothing. In order that’s truly in all probability actually excellent news to lots of people, I might guess.

It additionally appears like simply primarily based on what you simply stated, though like when a Paltrow’s residence was immaculate, it nonetheless traveled, but it surely nonetheless looks as if a very good concept to remain on prime of mud in our properties and to have issues like air filters primarily based on what you stated. Do you continue to suppose these are nice issues to do though they’re not going to essentially cease an issue?

Michael: Yeah, so I believe air filters are actually essential to this entire equation, significantly those which are on our HVAC methods. Gwenyth had like eight HVAC methods, all of them over time had mildew from varied locations inside the situation, stepping into the HVAC, rising within the HVAC, after which making the air high quality simply 10 instances worse. As a matter of truth, after seeing knowledge units from 1000’s of properties, I can let you know nearly each single time, in all probability like 99% of the time. We would discover some mildew in varied areas all through somebody’s residence, however we’re seeing the HVAC methods are… 10 instances, typically 100 instances or perhaps a thousand instances worse than anyone supply inside the house.

So this tells us that over time, these sources create particles, they titrate on our mud and so they get into our HVAC system over time. After which as a result of the HVAC system perpetually condensates, it simply gives a lot moisture for it to simply increase and explode. So I might say, you realize, you may get the plug-in ones, however there’s quite a lot of nice firms on the market that make air filters that really flip your HVAC methods into air purification methods. And that’s the finest cash should buy as a result of now you’re doing two issues. You’re defending your HVACs in order that they’re not as susceptible, rising mildew and creating an even bigger downside. And B, now you’re gathering quite a lot of this mud and stuff in your HVAC methods, which is gonna transfer much more air than these little plug-in air purifiers.

Katie: That is smart. Do you’ve gotten assets or can folks contact you to get assets on issues like that in the event that they need to do them even preventively?

Michael: Yeah, so in case you go on, there’s like a complete store we put collectively that has all types of cleansing kits to maintain your property clear and mud free, air purification methods, each plug-in ones and ones that may go into the HVAC, and just about simply something you’ll want to attempt to elevate your air high quality recreation right here.

Katie: And we’ve talked so much about how mildew clearly can exist in our residence and impression the house surroundings. I’d like to additionally change gears and speak about how that displays within the physique and what occurs, what somebody would possibly see of their physique or of their relations if they’re uncovered to mildew and infrequently in all probability don’t understand it as a result of from what you’ve stated, there are in all probability many people who’re uncovered and do not know.

Michael: Yeah, I imply, it’s so loopy as a result of if you have a look at all of the analysis and research, I believe they’re, there’s quite a lot of warning indicators that present us or inform us that we don’t know every part that there’s to know proper now about how mildew particularly impacts the physique. And I can let you know that just about any autoimmune illness deficiency situation on the market has some correlation with mildew.

We already know primarily based upon the medical analysis that bronchial asthma is triggered in 21% of circumstances by mildew publicity. And naturally, I’m positive that quantity could be very conservative. We additionally know that because of the nice work Dr. Dale Bredesen is doing, mildew may cause inhalational Alzheimer’s, the early onset of dementia, proper? So it not solely causes a few of the respiratory stuff or the allergy-like signs that we’ve all grown up figuring out about, but it surely additionally will be neurodegenerative, which is large to know and know.

We additionally see that air high quality generally, which type of covers the umbrella between mildew, micro organism, VOCs, toxins, formaldehyde, etcetera. Any articulate matter that infiltrates into the physique is inflicting 10% of the most cancers circumstances on the market. And that was accomplished by Most cancers Analysis UK. So there’s so much unfolding round this now that’s making this extra necessary when it comes to how we’re studying. I’ll let you know, we’re severely underfunded with analysis capabilities, which we see extra shifting taking place in our authorities, which is sweet. However I’ll let you know between the quantity of circumstances I’ve seen with folks with Lyme and the way sick they’ve gotten as a consequence of mildew publicity. Hashimoto’s, one other one. POTS. In children, we see pans and pandas signs flare up such as you wouldn’t imagine in these poisonous properties. We’ve seen correlation with alopecia. I’ve watched children lose their hair and regrow their hair as soon as they resolve the issue.

Miraculous stuff that I couldn’t clarify myself as a result of the medical analysis is type of lagging behind. I seen a lady, Shannon Hill. Out in Florida. She was recognized with POTS. She was mattress certain 95% of the time. She had a GJ feeding tube put in into her decrease intestines to provide her the vitamins to maintain her alive. She was a mom of three, might barely deal with her youngsters and the situation she was in. Inside seven days of her transferring out of her home for us to really go in and repair it. She made a miraculous restoration, was now not bedbound, was in a position to take away the GI feeding tube. Now, how can we clarify this when it comes to medical and science? We will’t. We do not know how or why. We simply know that it occurred.

So after we have a look at this from this angle, irritation, the intestine mind connection that it influences, how will we draw this parallel? And I believe that’s been one in all my largest challenges to date. Once we have a look at a few of the research, there’s a pair issues that we are able to tie collectively that may make quite a lot of sense. There’s a fantastic examine on particle kineticists that talks about how something that will get trapped or deposited onto the lungs that isn’t in a position to be eliminated by our pure protection mechanisms may cause pathogenic results. So if you be taught that, it type of begins to make sense whereas we have now all this correlation with autoimmune illness, which is on the rise, as everyone knows.

After which we have now to tie it with one other incontrovertible fact that I discovered from the American Lung Affiliation, which says, any particles smaller than 10 microns will bypass our self-defense mechanisms, get deposits on the lungs, doubtlessly even enter our bloodstream. So now we’re seeing something smaller than 10 microns. Properly, that’s mildew, that’s micro organism, viruses, toxins, most allergens and pathogens. We will begin to actually make sense of this.

So what’s taking place is we have now approach an excessive amount of mildew in the environment, which sadly can occur to fairly a number of folks. Each time you are taking a breath 20,000 instances a day, you’ve gotten these tiny particles and toxins which are bypassing our self-defense mechanisms, getting deposited on the lungs the place it will possibly have pathogenic results, getting into the bloodstream the place it will possibly begin to disrupt the intestine, and actually, sadly, begin to construct… sickness in in any other case wholesome people. And what we see is, if you study mildew particularly, Uh, we make quite a lot of antibiotics out of mildew. I don’t know in case you guys have been conscious of that, proper? Um, penicillium is the mildew that produces little bit of, um, antibiotics. Uh, penicillium additionally creates a toxin referred to as mycophenolic acid, which is what we use in immune suppressing medication to suppress our immune system deliberately, particularly when we have now organ transplants and large medical surgical procedures the place we have to suppress our immune system in order that our physique doesn’t have these reactions to. And you realize. Not agree with the brand new organ coming in, proper? It’s a international object. So we have now these conditions right here the place we perceive and the way we’re utilizing it in medication. However but we’re neglecting the analysis on the way it would possibly have an effect on us after we’re not deliberately utilizing it simply by rising in our properties.

So there’s so much right here to unpack. The underside line is, I believe anybody listening to this, what I would like you to know is… We don’t need to know every part. It’s gonna take time. What we do know is we are able to take a look at for it in our properties. We will take a look at for it in our our bodies. And after we see these two issues correlate and we all know we have now signs. It’s necessary to do the work to make enhancements. And I’ll let you know nearly everybody that has accomplished that, that has ever come again to me and had this dialog stated, they really feel noticeably higher by making these enhancements. So, you realize, it’s actually necessary that we type of have a look at that.

Katie: That is smart. And it appears like eliminating the supply of it’s clearly the massive first step and that I’ve all the time believed and nonetheless firmly imagine that the physique is designed to heal. So I assume the physique can do so much by itself as soon as particularly that fixed publicity is eliminated and that our our bodies are wanting to maneuver towards well being always. Are there any extra issues that individuals discover typically useful in that course of in the event that they’re recovering from mildew publicity that may be moreover useful along with what the physique’s going to do by itself?

Michael: Yeah, I might say in all probability essentially the most useful factor that helped me by myself well being journey was sauna. Lots of people are taking particular binders like activated charcoal or a few of the stronger stuff which you can take. And for me, it was sauna. And I’m positive all people has their very own story. Sadly, the human physique is miraculous as it’s. No two our bodies are precisely alike. All of us have completely different genetics, epigenetics, completely different immune methods, immune responses, etcetera.

So, I all the time say in case you’re on this journey, you’re searching for suggestions or tips, you realize, positively verify with a physician first to get an understanding of what is likely to be best for you as a result of I’d say various things work completely different for various folks. However I believe one fixed is sweating is so important as a result of quite a lot of toxins get saved in fats cells in our physique. And after we’re sweating so much, we’re consuming quite a lot of fluids as we sweat, we’re flushing out these toxins fairly nicely. And many people don’t sweat sufficient. And so I might encourage folks, try the sauna. That basically helped me. After like 30 days of sauna work, I felt like a complete new particular person.

Katie: I like that your suggestion is one which helps the physique’s pure pathways. I’m an enormous fan of it each time doable, slightly than interrupting that, simply supporting what the physique already is aware of find out how to do. And sometimes, prefer to your level, these are the straightforward issues like sweating, like hydrating, like sleeping nicely, and giving the physique house to heal. And so I like that that’s your suggestion. I additionally, it looks as if I do know your mission is to actually create a paradigm shift and to deliver schooling and consciousness round this and assist folks create more healthy residence environments. I’m curious what spurred this and if there was a private story that led to this imaginative and prescient for you.

Michael: Yeah, I imply, the considerably private story was extra alongside the traces of… seeing so many individuals getting sick in New York the place I used to be dwelling proper after Hurricane Sandy. My dad’s owned a development firm in New York since I’m 5 years previous, and he did quite a lot of hearth restoration. That was type of his primary enterprise line. When that hurricane hit, it didn’t matter what you probably did, hearth restoration, water mitigation, you just about had your fingers full making an attempt to repair properties that have been destroyed. After seeing so many individuals get sick in their very own properties, it was the primary time I ever realized that the environment performed such an necessary position in our well being.

And one of many loopy issues that I noticed on this specific occasion was the truth that each time an enormous occasion occurs like this, you’ll get firms from all around the nation that’ll are available opportunistically searching for work and so they’ll discover it. And most of the people in this sort of state of affairs, they’re so determined to simply get their residence mounted and get again to their lives as a result of they’re displaced at this level. That they’ll rent anybody proper to simply that that’s prepared to start out straight away, are available and assist.

Properly, quite a lot of these properties weren’t repaired correctly. So quite a lot of the properties that I’m entering into, they have been supposedly repaired, they seemed like they have been mounted, however but laboratory proof was telling us that there have been nonetheless issues there. And that is once I actually began to know, okay, one, our properties could make us sick. That was the very first thing that I ever linked the dots on. The second factor that I actually understood was that simply because it seems to be prefer it’s mounted or seems to be good doesn’t imply that scientifically it’s good. And that type of led to this 11 yr journey of me making an attempt to know how do I make issues higher for folks, irrespective of how they appear, however how do I truly show it from a knowledge perspective?

And I needed to create a course of round it that outdated what the trade had been recognized for. And my private journey concerning mildew and its impression, I can let you know that, as I turned extra conscious of this, I spotted… I had bronchial asthma as a child. And once I had bronchial asthma, I lived in New York. And once I was eight and I moved out of New York into New Jersey. I now not had bronchial asthma, and HALU is gone. I additionally had numerous diseases as a child, nearly had my tonsils eliminated, had ear infections on a regular basis whereas I used to be dwelling in New York, that each one appeared to subside after we moved right into a single-family residence in New Jersey, and I began getting more healthy.

The opposite factor is… being on this trade for 11 years, even with protecting gear, going into folks’s properties on a regular basis. I too wakened like most individuals, not realizing I didn’t really feel fairly the identical approach I felt in my 20s. I simply chalked it as much as getting older too, till I spotted, you realize, I am going into quite a lot of properties, even when I’m defending myself 99% of the time. A few of these properties we’ve seen knowledge for fairly poisonous. I ought to in all probability verify myself. And that’s once I began doing that entire detox program, sauna. And I’ll let you know, I used to be energized once more. And, um… earlier than then, I used to be actually questioning, you realize, if I get older or if my children… making me drained and at last bought my power again and misplaced a ton of weight within the course of too and have become a lot more healthy.

Katie: That is smart. Yeah, such as you, I had a private journey into the world of well being after which I’ve gotten to be taught a lot and meet so many unbelievable folks all through that. I’ll after all put hyperlinks within the present notes so that individuals can discover you as a result of such as you stated, there may be quite a lot of nuance that goes into this and quite a lot of very customized understanding relying on somebody’s particular person case and what’s occurring of their residence. And I do know you’ve gotten assets and analysis and all types of information about this. So these hyperlinks will after all be within the present notes, however the place can folks discover you on-line to continue to learn past what we are able to cowl in a one hour podcast episode?

Michael: Yeah, so you’ll be able to go to in case you want assets in your own residence. You may go to in case you’d prefer to volunteer to alter the legal guidelines in your state. Possibly you already learn about these things and also you’re simply so joyful that somebody’s speaking about it. Properly. Please volunteer, as a result of one of many ways in which we clear up this downside systemically is by altering legal guidelines and rules to verify individuals are higher protected in opposition to dwelling in some of these circumstances. If you wish to join with me personally, you’ll be able to go to and you’ll seek the advice of with me or something searching for me particular. And naturally, Instagram, themichaelrubino, in case you wanna see some wonderful suggestions, tips that I put up nearly day-after-day.

Katie: Superior. After which a few questions I like to ask towards the top of interviews. The primary being if there’s a e-book or variety of books which have had a profound impression on you personally and in that case, what they’re and why.

Michael: So I need to speak about my favourite e-book of all time. And simply because it applies so on to me, it’s referred to as The Therapeutic Group. And to provide you a protracted story brief, the decision to motion on this e-book is that. It’s for entrepreneurs which have organizations. Make it possible for your services or products are doing good for the world, are serving to ultimately to heal the world and never simply to become profitable. I believe that was one thing that struck a chord with me. The e-book is unbelievable and naturally, there’s much more in that e-book than simply what I stated. If anybody’s an entrepreneur listening, please learn that e-book. It’ll change your life. I promise.

Katie: I’ll hyperlink to that within the present notes as nicely. These are all at for you guys listening on the go. And lastly, any parting recommendation for the listeners that may very well be associated to the subject of mildew or one thing we’ve lined or unrelated life recommendation that you simply discover useful.

Michael: Sure, go to the present notes. Get your self the mud take a look at and verify your surroundings. As a result of I believe it’s simply been too lengthy for many people to attach these dots. And I believe you’re gonna be stunned to see what you discover and don’t freak out. If you happen to discover one thing elevated, that’s good. Which means which you can make an enchancment and hopefully that enchancment improves your high quality of life. I’ve seen the craziest issues occur to folks with the strangest and oddest signs. I’ve seen those that didn’t even suppose they’d an issue, didn’t even suppose that their well being was declining, however but after some easy enhancements, abruptly they’re feeling extra energized, happier, more healthy, and many others. So you don’t have anything to lose and you’ve got so much to realize.

Katie: Properly, I’ve actually discovered so much throughout this interview. I’m guessing lots of people listening have discovered so much as nicely. And like I stated, I’ll be sure that all of the assets are simple to search out so that you simply guys can discover out personally for you what this implies for you and your well being. However Michael, thanks a lot. I really feel like I stated at first, it is a subject that isn’t nicely understood and positively not talked about sufficient. And I like that you’re bringing consciousness and schooling to this and serving to households within the course of. So thanks in your time.

Michael: And thanks, Katie, for having such a tremendous platform for folks to be taught and for overlaying this necessary subject.

Katie: And as all the time, because of all of you for listening and sharing your most useful assets, your time, your power, and your consideration with us right now. We’re each so grateful that you simply did, and I hope that you’ll be part of me once more on the following episode of the Wellness Mama podcast.

If you happen to’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to go away a score or evaluation on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra folks to search out the podcast, which suggests much more mothers and households may benefit from the knowledge. I actually recognize your time, and thanks as all the time for listening.

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